Post by deadbat on Jan 3, 2020 12:25:11 GMT
Did not go last night. Watched in a rather subdued bar. I am not going to do a full report as most people saw it I am sure and not going to detail the match. I will just do a summary of us, Liverpool and the player ratings -
Liverpool – Start with Liverpool. They clearly took us very seriously as they played the strongest team they have and all the big guns played. This was the same as City. Teams are not resting people against us and we are not being seen as a good side. That is the respect Klopp gave us. They started really well and helped by a slip scored a really good goal from their point of view. We had a few half chances but after this they dominated and had the most passes a Premier League team has ever had in a game. That summed up the level of control. They completely controlled things and I was pleased to go in just 1-0 down. After the break I thought they were even better. They looked fitter, hungrier and of course are more skilled in every position. They went for the 2nd and got it. After that they could have had more but never really needed too up it and just eased to the 2-0 win. I think if they had wanted to, they could have got 5 or 6 like they did against Leicester. They tactically got it right in terms of pushing our wing backs high up the field, then pressing whenever Norwood had it. You realise that if these three play poorly we struggle as they are the source of so many of our attacks.
Technically they showed the little moves/passes and touches you would expect and at times the football was quick and measured. They also go long quite a lot but then so do we and the diagonal or ball over the top is used to good effect. However, for me the biggest thing they did so well was compete and win every loose ball. They never lost a ball all night in any area and they won first and second balls. Wilder summed it up. They tackled, fought and ran more than us. They had such appetite for the game when you thought after having such bigger games on paper recently, they may have a drop off but looked so determined to put us away and the attitude was spot on. They look deserved champions and not sure they will lose a game for a long time if Klopp has them mentally and physically at it; like they are at the moment. They have quality but the work ethic from front to back is something else. Even players that are not that tall/big are physically strong. Add that to the touch, skill and pace and they are just so much better than anyone else. They were night and day from City a few days earlier and that shows how far they have moved the bar up.
Opponent Man of the Match – Not sure you can pick one out. The full backs superb. Van Dijk was immense and never gave our forwards a kick all night and the midfield ran all over us. Henderson gets a lot of criticism but is a superb player. Decent on the ball, mobile but works so hard for the team. The front three are so tough to handle. The skills and touch are one thing, but the movement and ability to press and close down is top drawer. I think Mane is the best player and the one that worries me the most and it showed last night as when he had it, we just backed off and backed off. Salah does amazing things in bursts but Mane is the most consistent of the front three.
Opponent Weak link – Do not think they had one at all. No one played poorly. They were all 8/10 performances. Even Milner was steady and never gave it away all night. Maybe at times Gomez switched off a few times but that is nit picking.
United – Seen a lot of mixed opinions on us from the game. Many just saying Liverpool were that good and no shame in getting well beaten by them. Some saying we never played and the worst we have been this season. The reality is somewhere in between but much like we have made teams have an off day, so did Liverpool to us today. At the start of the season, I feared many games like last night would happen on a regular basis. It has not. Not until well over half the season have, we been soundly beaten. Last night we were. They out passed us, outworked us and were just far superior. They are technically better but then they worked harder too. That is the big caveat when discussing the game. I do feel and Wilder agrees, that despite them being far superior we could have done much better. Individually and collectively we were miles off the Man City game or even Liverpool at home earlier in the season. I would say other teams such as Brighton and Watford (and Wolves) have given them a decent game at Anfield recently. We barely laid a glove on them as Wilder said. That is disappointing. Maybe it was down to them simply being miles better but we have to control what we can do and look at ourselves. I felt we looked a bit overawed and frightened right from the off. The early goal was a hammer blow of course but then we never even tried to keep the ball and it was all a bit hot potato. We had that spell of 2 or 3 half chances but this aside it was one-way traffic and they just kept coming at us. We were so deep and I know if we came out, they could get in behind, but the way we set up just invited pressure.
It felt to me a bit like Warnock and how we played the last time we were up there away from home and almost damage limitation from the off. That is not how this current team plays. Wilder always says he wants us to go out the front door. Last night we went out the back door and most of the players seemed to be staring at the clock and almost wanting it to end. I feel it was a big opportunity missed in the sense that we never even gave them a game. As I say, maybe we simply were not able to live with them but we never made a tackle all night, never kept it. The wing backs never went forward, the front two did not press or work hard enough and the midfield were non existent on and off the ball. Sounds harsh but that is what happened no matter who we played against; I have to judge our players. The only ones who came out of it with much credit were Basham, Henderson and to a lesser extent O’Connell and Egan.
The rest it looked like a game too far and maybe the exertions of recent weeks caught up with a few. As I say I could cope with us losing the ball or not passing it very well but we did not even try and get amongst them. Perhaps we could not as they were too quick but a number of times, they had it in the final third and we just sat off. A few times they walked into our box and we looked almost embarrassed to tackle them. It’s done now and we move on. Wilder called it exactly how I saw it and the way he walked down the tunnel – I believe he will have strong words. It reminded me of when we played Man Utd in the Cup under Bassett in 1990 and I think it was then when he said if we want to play teams like that, we have to show we believe we belong. He said we did not have that belief. I think that was the case tonight. As I say, we played them earlier in the season and really got amongst them and others such as Watford and Brighton did the same quite recently. Tonight, it was men against boys really.
We have a big game next Friday and hopefully the players will rest up and recharge for a massive game as we have to get back to what we are good at. We knew we would probably not be getting anything from these two games although the manner of the two performances were quite different (glad I went to City and not Liverpool in terms of picking my games). West Ham have a new manager and will be fired up so we really need to be at it from the start.
Ratings (people may criticise these ratings but I am marking them in a game and marks would be same whether we play Liverpool or Fylde – it is about how they performed in one game)
Henderson 8/10 – Our best player. Made a sensational save first half from Salah and a few other good stops too. Left quite exposed on the two goals where he had little chance and was a bit unlucky on the second goal. Enhanced his reputation with his performance.
Baldock 5/10 – Made a real rick early on when he slipped which cost us the goal and struggled after this as Robertson and Mane got the better out of him and he got little help from Lundstram or others in front. Never got forward or was allowed to all day and his poorest night of the season.
Stevens 5/10 – As above. He was asked to defend and looked at full stretch a lot and could not get on the front foot. He did attack once second half but put in an awful looped cross which saw them break for the second goal. Quite a few mis controls or passes out of play. Looked very nervous.
Basham 7.5/10 – Our best outfield player by quite a distance. He attacked the ball, won tackles and made so many blocks/headers first half. He was maybe not quite as tight second half but they were all tiring by this point. He at least kept going and I felt the only one who actually won individual challenges/battles.
O’Connell 7/10 – Started the game very deep and this set the tone as he rarely got into their half all game. He was able to try and stem the tide with a few interceptions but I thought him and Egan still were not tight enough. The first goal he completely switched off and led to the finish. He got tighter after that but Salah still got away a few other times.
Egan 7/10 – They had chances where he was not close enough but it was hard with so much pressure and I felt he kept his discipline and shape when the ball just kept coming back and the centre backs got no help from the midfield or forwards at all. Second goal he maybe needs to react a bit quicker but again that is being very critical.
Norwood 5/10 – Barely on the ball all night. He just never saw it and I felt when he had it, he just went simple as he knew there was no outlet higher up. I do feel that we lacked composure and all the midfield just wanted rid of it. We saw none of the triangles, nice composed one touch stuff we saw at City and other games. They pressed him and made him give it up. Off the ball he never put a tackle in and players just ran off the midfield.
Lundstram 5/10 – Will have thought about this game all his life and when it came, he looked massively out of his depth. He lost physical challenges all game, let runners get off him and gave Baldock no protection. A few times smaller players just brushed him aside or left him on the deck. Had our best effort with the looping volley just wide. He started the season brilliantly but the last 3 or 4 games I think since the 2nd half v Villa, his standards have dropped quite a lot.
Fleck 4.5/10 – Was superb against City but as good as he was then, he was as poor tonight and felt along with Mousset was our least effective player. He looked like he was out on his arse after about 10 minutes and could not get close to any Liverpool players. He never saw the ball and when he did, he lost it or got tackled but more than this I felt he did not do anywhere near enough off the ball and sat off all night. He did not press or engage the midfield and when they ran with it, he let them go past hm. Really poor tonight and I would have taken him off.
McGoldrick 5/10 – Saw very little of the ball but I do believe we did not do enough to unsettle them. The contract when our centre backs had it compared to when they had it was huge. People will say if you press then they can go through you and you are exposed but we would have had more success of getting the ball back or stopping attacks with some kind of pressure on the Liverpool defence/midfield. They had ages to decide what to do and our front two barely broke into a jog all night. Maybe they were instructed to keep a shape and not press/commit but it was not working and we needed to either drop McGoldrick right into the midfield and give us an extra man or get them higher up the field trying to push them back. He had one shot saved but outside of that not sure he had many touches at all.
Mousset 5/10 – As above really. Did not think he did anything of note all game in a tough match with little service. He had one run and cross which was a poor effort and too close to the keeper but did not press/harry or put the centre backs under any pressure. The odd times it came to him, he did not even offer a nuisance threat and just sort of ambled about. Thought the attitude of the front two summed up the difference between the two recent games where we gave the City backline a tough time and unsettled them. Liverpool’s centre backs (albeit better) just strolled through the game.
Subs –
McBurnie – Getting criticism for the one chance he missed but it came at him quick. He should do better but not sure it was as easy as others have made out. He at least put himself about a bit (him and Sharp did) which was more than the two they replaced. Hard when they were doing all the attacking.
Sharp – Thought he did ok actually and won us a few free kicks and helped ease the one-way traffic. He at least tried to get to the ball first or hold it up which we had not seen all night.
Besic – Did well when he came on. Floored a Liverpool player and got stuck in which is more than the other midfielders did. He was ok at City without being spectacular and maybe on reflection should have started again but the Lundstram being back at is his own club saw Wilder maybe make the wrong call.
Manager Wilder 5/10 – Liverpool have better players and a better team. By some way. So, no disgrace in the loss but the manner we lost will annoy him. Liverpool worked us out in that if you work as hard as us, push the wing backs into their own half and press Norwood, we do struggle. They knocked us out of the game early and overall and won every loose ball. The reason I have marked him so low is that I felt at half time he needed to change something. It was almost like he wanted to try and keep it at 1-0 and then try something but he took too long to make the subs (came on after they scored the second but had been readied before) and I am not sure these tactics of sitting back and deep were working. Maybe we would have conceded more but as he often says I would rather us die trying than not try at all. I felt we just accepted the loss tonight and was not the United and Wilder team we have seen. I get the opposition are so much better but as I have alluded to, other teams that are worse than us have given them a much better game recently and caused them problems. Of course, others like Leicester have got whooped even more than us. Hard one but I think the overriding feeling for me, is could we individually and collectively have done better than we did regardless of the juggernaut we played against, and I think we could.
Referee/Officials/VAR – Easy game to ref as we never tackled all night. No bookings and barely a foul. One VAR was the offside which sadly Lundstram was clearly off. They kept banging on about a shirt pull on Van Dijk 2nd half but it was barely anything and there are far worse than that most games.
Liverpool – Start with Liverpool. They clearly took us very seriously as they played the strongest team they have and all the big guns played. This was the same as City. Teams are not resting people against us and we are not being seen as a good side. That is the respect Klopp gave us. They started really well and helped by a slip scored a really good goal from their point of view. We had a few half chances but after this they dominated and had the most passes a Premier League team has ever had in a game. That summed up the level of control. They completely controlled things and I was pleased to go in just 1-0 down. After the break I thought they were even better. They looked fitter, hungrier and of course are more skilled in every position. They went for the 2nd and got it. After that they could have had more but never really needed too up it and just eased to the 2-0 win. I think if they had wanted to, they could have got 5 or 6 like they did against Leicester. They tactically got it right in terms of pushing our wing backs high up the field, then pressing whenever Norwood had it. You realise that if these three play poorly we struggle as they are the source of so many of our attacks.
Technically they showed the little moves/passes and touches you would expect and at times the football was quick and measured. They also go long quite a lot but then so do we and the diagonal or ball over the top is used to good effect. However, for me the biggest thing they did so well was compete and win every loose ball. They never lost a ball all night in any area and they won first and second balls. Wilder summed it up. They tackled, fought and ran more than us. They had such appetite for the game when you thought after having such bigger games on paper recently, they may have a drop off but looked so determined to put us away and the attitude was spot on. They look deserved champions and not sure they will lose a game for a long time if Klopp has them mentally and physically at it; like they are at the moment. They have quality but the work ethic from front to back is something else. Even players that are not that tall/big are physically strong. Add that to the touch, skill and pace and they are just so much better than anyone else. They were night and day from City a few days earlier and that shows how far they have moved the bar up.
Opponent Man of the Match – Not sure you can pick one out. The full backs superb. Van Dijk was immense and never gave our forwards a kick all night and the midfield ran all over us. Henderson gets a lot of criticism but is a superb player. Decent on the ball, mobile but works so hard for the team. The front three are so tough to handle. The skills and touch are one thing, but the movement and ability to press and close down is top drawer. I think Mane is the best player and the one that worries me the most and it showed last night as when he had it, we just backed off and backed off. Salah does amazing things in bursts but Mane is the most consistent of the front three.
Opponent Weak link – Do not think they had one at all. No one played poorly. They were all 8/10 performances. Even Milner was steady and never gave it away all night. Maybe at times Gomez switched off a few times but that is nit picking.
United – Seen a lot of mixed opinions on us from the game. Many just saying Liverpool were that good and no shame in getting well beaten by them. Some saying we never played and the worst we have been this season. The reality is somewhere in between but much like we have made teams have an off day, so did Liverpool to us today. At the start of the season, I feared many games like last night would happen on a regular basis. It has not. Not until well over half the season have, we been soundly beaten. Last night we were. They out passed us, outworked us and were just far superior. They are technically better but then they worked harder too. That is the big caveat when discussing the game. I do feel and Wilder agrees, that despite them being far superior we could have done much better. Individually and collectively we were miles off the Man City game or even Liverpool at home earlier in the season. I would say other teams such as Brighton and Watford (and Wolves) have given them a decent game at Anfield recently. We barely laid a glove on them as Wilder said. That is disappointing. Maybe it was down to them simply being miles better but we have to control what we can do and look at ourselves. I felt we looked a bit overawed and frightened right from the off. The early goal was a hammer blow of course but then we never even tried to keep the ball and it was all a bit hot potato. We had that spell of 2 or 3 half chances but this aside it was one-way traffic and they just kept coming at us. We were so deep and I know if we came out, they could get in behind, but the way we set up just invited pressure.
It felt to me a bit like Warnock and how we played the last time we were up there away from home and almost damage limitation from the off. That is not how this current team plays. Wilder always says he wants us to go out the front door. Last night we went out the back door and most of the players seemed to be staring at the clock and almost wanting it to end. I feel it was a big opportunity missed in the sense that we never even gave them a game. As I say, maybe we simply were not able to live with them but we never made a tackle all night, never kept it. The wing backs never went forward, the front two did not press or work hard enough and the midfield were non existent on and off the ball. Sounds harsh but that is what happened no matter who we played against; I have to judge our players. The only ones who came out of it with much credit were Basham, Henderson and to a lesser extent O’Connell and Egan.
The rest it looked like a game too far and maybe the exertions of recent weeks caught up with a few. As I say I could cope with us losing the ball or not passing it very well but we did not even try and get amongst them. Perhaps we could not as they were too quick but a number of times, they had it in the final third and we just sat off. A few times they walked into our box and we looked almost embarrassed to tackle them. It’s done now and we move on. Wilder called it exactly how I saw it and the way he walked down the tunnel – I believe he will have strong words. It reminded me of when we played Man Utd in the Cup under Bassett in 1990 and I think it was then when he said if we want to play teams like that, we have to show we believe we belong. He said we did not have that belief. I think that was the case tonight. As I say, we played them earlier in the season and really got amongst them and others such as Watford and Brighton did the same quite recently. Tonight, it was men against boys really.
We have a big game next Friday and hopefully the players will rest up and recharge for a massive game as we have to get back to what we are good at. We knew we would probably not be getting anything from these two games although the manner of the two performances were quite different (glad I went to City and not Liverpool in terms of picking my games). West Ham have a new manager and will be fired up so we really need to be at it from the start.
Ratings (people may criticise these ratings but I am marking them in a game and marks would be same whether we play Liverpool or Fylde – it is about how they performed in one game)
Henderson 8/10 – Our best player. Made a sensational save first half from Salah and a few other good stops too. Left quite exposed on the two goals where he had little chance and was a bit unlucky on the second goal. Enhanced his reputation with his performance.
Baldock 5/10 – Made a real rick early on when he slipped which cost us the goal and struggled after this as Robertson and Mane got the better out of him and he got little help from Lundstram or others in front. Never got forward or was allowed to all day and his poorest night of the season.
Stevens 5/10 – As above. He was asked to defend and looked at full stretch a lot and could not get on the front foot. He did attack once second half but put in an awful looped cross which saw them break for the second goal. Quite a few mis controls or passes out of play. Looked very nervous.
Basham 7.5/10 – Our best outfield player by quite a distance. He attacked the ball, won tackles and made so many blocks/headers first half. He was maybe not quite as tight second half but they were all tiring by this point. He at least kept going and I felt the only one who actually won individual challenges/battles.
O’Connell 7/10 – Started the game very deep and this set the tone as he rarely got into their half all game. He was able to try and stem the tide with a few interceptions but I thought him and Egan still were not tight enough. The first goal he completely switched off and led to the finish. He got tighter after that but Salah still got away a few other times.
Egan 7/10 – They had chances where he was not close enough but it was hard with so much pressure and I felt he kept his discipline and shape when the ball just kept coming back and the centre backs got no help from the midfield or forwards at all. Second goal he maybe needs to react a bit quicker but again that is being very critical.
Norwood 5/10 – Barely on the ball all night. He just never saw it and I felt when he had it, he just went simple as he knew there was no outlet higher up. I do feel that we lacked composure and all the midfield just wanted rid of it. We saw none of the triangles, nice composed one touch stuff we saw at City and other games. They pressed him and made him give it up. Off the ball he never put a tackle in and players just ran off the midfield.
Lundstram 5/10 – Will have thought about this game all his life and when it came, he looked massively out of his depth. He lost physical challenges all game, let runners get off him and gave Baldock no protection. A few times smaller players just brushed him aside or left him on the deck. Had our best effort with the looping volley just wide. He started the season brilliantly but the last 3 or 4 games I think since the 2nd half v Villa, his standards have dropped quite a lot.
Fleck 4.5/10 – Was superb against City but as good as he was then, he was as poor tonight and felt along with Mousset was our least effective player. He looked like he was out on his arse after about 10 minutes and could not get close to any Liverpool players. He never saw the ball and when he did, he lost it or got tackled but more than this I felt he did not do anywhere near enough off the ball and sat off all night. He did not press or engage the midfield and when they ran with it, he let them go past hm. Really poor tonight and I would have taken him off.
McGoldrick 5/10 – Saw very little of the ball but I do believe we did not do enough to unsettle them. The contract when our centre backs had it compared to when they had it was huge. People will say if you press then they can go through you and you are exposed but we would have had more success of getting the ball back or stopping attacks with some kind of pressure on the Liverpool defence/midfield. They had ages to decide what to do and our front two barely broke into a jog all night. Maybe they were instructed to keep a shape and not press/commit but it was not working and we needed to either drop McGoldrick right into the midfield and give us an extra man or get them higher up the field trying to push them back. He had one shot saved but outside of that not sure he had many touches at all.
Mousset 5/10 – As above really. Did not think he did anything of note all game in a tough match with little service. He had one run and cross which was a poor effort and too close to the keeper but did not press/harry or put the centre backs under any pressure. The odd times it came to him, he did not even offer a nuisance threat and just sort of ambled about. Thought the attitude of the front two summed up the difference between the two recent games where we gave the City backline a tough time and unsettled them. Liverpool’s centre backs (albeit better) just strolled through the game.
Subs –
McBurnie – Getting criticism for the one chance he missed but it came at him quick. He should do better but not sure it was as easy as others have made out. He at least put himself about a bit (him and Sharp did) which was more than the two they replaced. Hard when they were doing all the attacking.
Sharp – Thought he did ok actually and won us a few free kicks and helped ease the one-way traffic. He at least tried to get to the ball first or hold it up which we had not seen all night.
Besic – Did well when he came on. Floored a Liverpool player and got stuck in which is more than the other midfielders did. He was ok at City without being spectacular and maybe on reflection should have started again but the Lundstram being back at is his own club saw Wilder maybe make the wrong call.
Manager Wilder 5/10 – Liverpool have better players and a better team. By some way. So, no disgrace in the loss but the manner we lost will annoy him. Liverpool worked us out in that if you work as hard as us, push the wing backs into their own half and press Norwood, we do struggle. They knocked us out of the game early and overall and won every loose ball. The reason I have marked him so low is that I felt at half time he needed to change something. It was almost like he wanted to try and keep it at 1-0 and then try something but he took too long to make the subs (came on after they scored the second but had been readied before) and I am not sure these tactics of sitting back and deep were working. Maybe we would have conceded more but as he often says I would rather us die trying than not try at all. I felt we just accepted the loss tonight and was not the United and Wilder team we have seen. I get the opposition are so much better but as I have alluded to, other teams that are worse than us have given them a much better game recently and caused them problems. Of course, others like Leicester have got whooped even more than us. Hard one but I think the overriding feeling for me, is could we individually and collectively have done better than we did regardless of the juggernaut we played against, and I think we could.
Referee/Officials/VAR – Easy game to ref as we never tackled all night. No bookings and barely a foul. One VAR was the offside which sadly Lundstram was clearly off. They kept banging on about a shirt pull on Van Dijk 2nd half but it was barely anything and there are far worse than that most games.
